Episode 3: Unapologetic Insights & the Power of Black Narratives with Pepper Miller
What happens when cultural truth meets fearless advocacy?
In this powerful conversation, Cynthia Harris, sits down with long-time researcher and strategist Pepper Miller to trace her journey pioneering Black consumer insights from the early pushbacks to today’s evolving climate. They dive into history as the ultimate insight, the weaponization of “Black,” and what it means to lead with authenticity in uncomfortable times. If you care about cultural fluency, equity in marketing, and storytelling that honors lived experience, this is a must-listen.
Your peek behind the curtain of the insights industry starts here. Enjoy this episode of Research Revealed!
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Pepper Miller is a recognized Black American consumer researcher, three-time author, and Black American subject matter expert. Since 1995, Pepper has been a trailblazer helping large corporations understand and positively engage the Black consumer market.
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Well, I am thrilled to have Pepper Miller today on Research Reveal. She's somebody who has been pioneering for black consumers for quite some time. I first had exposure to Ms. Pepper years ago as an employee of Procter and Gamble in Cincinnati. And, I definitely had a lot of respect for her from the audience and have even more respect for her as a friend and a mentee.
I'd consider myself a mentee of miss Pepper Miller. So thank you for joining me today, miss Pepper. Thank you. And I consider a mentee of you, Cynthia, world traveler speaking all over, and I'm delighted to be here. No wonder you're so smart.
You're naturally smart anyway and brilliant, but I found that a lot of people that come out of Procter and Gamble, P and G, and even, Unilever are very smart. So that connects the dots for me with you. So excellent. Very good. Well, that means a lot coming from you.
So thank you so much. Let's get into it. You know what I would love to talk about, Pepper, is what sparked your interest in pioneering for black consumers in the first place? You know, we all kind of know you as the person who has trailblazed the path for so many of us practitioners to get to do what we do and have the privilege of the work that we do. And, certainly it's not lost on me that you were one of few when you started.
Yeah. It was. So can you please, by all means, take us back to that moment? What sparked your interest, and what made you realize this is what you needed to spend your career doing? Well, I didn't initially set out to be the black American consumer market researcher.
I was directed in that path by potential clients. When I was knocking on doors for work, people would look at me in this brown skin and say, we'll call you when we have something black. It was me showing up in this brown skin that directed me. And so it was the companies like Beryl and, at that time, Soft Sheen, the hair care company. They have been purchased years ago by L'Oreal.
I was doing so much work in the black hair care industry and with Soft Sheen and Jean Morris and Barbara Proctor, the late Barbara Proctor and Sam Chisholm. They provided the opportunity for me to practice my craft. So listening to these stories as moderators, my focus has been primarily qualitative research. We do quantitative too, but qualitative. Listening to the stories of lived experiences versus the stereotypes that so many brands and so many business leaders have about black people.
I was determined to help them see our value as a people as well as a market segment. And that has since way back then in the nineties or even before, Cynthia, that has been my mission and what it's what keeps me awake at night to make sure that our value is understood. I'm a foundational black consumer researcher, because so many of us don't understand our history. And then we don't have the foundations right. I think we skip too many steps.
So I concentrate on those insights, if you will, that so many people may not understand, may not be aware of, or it may take for granted. Makes a lot of sense. And I appreciate the vulnerability in sharing even that a lot of us don't know our history that I think is really profound of you to say out loud because that is the truth. I think there's so much about history that we don't know, and how can it help us be better researchers to know our history? I think about that quite a bit, and there's still so much that I think I even have to learn.
But speaking of history, miss Pepper, I'm curious. In a a current climate where history is being challenged in many spaces in our lives, how do you think we should keep history alive as black professionals? But then also, how do we keep history alive in the organizations that we have influence in so that we can have the right context for the work that we do? I love it. You you are very kind.
Our history is being challenged. Our history is being erased. I'm at this point now where people don't like what I say too bad. I'm I am telling the facts, and I'm telling the truth associated with the facts, but our history is being erased. And then what's happening, I love the question because the easier response is to keep talking about it, to keep talking about it.
But so many of us are afraid, even black as black researchers are afraid to talk about it. As business leaders, we're afraid to listen to it. I've gotten so much pushback since the rapid dismantling of DEI. I've gotten even more pushback about even talking about black. I am a black person, black woman.
My black consumer market researcher was in my title. But when you use the word black today, it has been so demonized, people are pushing back on it. So when you show up in the black skin wanting to work, when you show up wanting to talk about history and how important it is, it is the most the most important insight for understanding US born black people in particular and to get this pushback. So what we have to instill in ourselves is that we must control the narrative. We must do it.
When we can, we must integrate it. I've been on a couple of town halls with a couple of research people and then people not from the research industry, but were popular. Two white men on one call and two black men on another. And they talked about things situations in this country and where we are today not being so bad. Things are not that bad.
Or if I bring up something a little controversial, like, I'm always talking about woke and how it is not anti white, anti American, or anti flag. It's about black people using our voices to speak out against the injustices. It goes back to the nineteen twenties and thirties. Pushback. Pushback.
So, you know, we have to have courage, and we have to be brave enough to control the narrative and to keep the conversation going. It's our history, our language, our identity, and the fact that we are unapologetic black people. Those four or five things do help define us and define our role in America and in the marketplace. So we have to keep talking about history, language, identity when we can. I'm sure it's probably uncomfortable for a lot of people, but we gotta control the narrative.
Mhmm. Mhmm. Controlling the narrative makes a whole lot of sense to me. And, you know, Pepper, I am implored to kind of mention, I'm hearing you say a lot of responsibility. It really does lie on us as black practitioners and, quite frankly, others who care about black consumers.
Yes. There is a responsibility to make sure that we're keeping history alive and that we're integrating it into how we do our work. And, and I also heard you use the word courage, which I think is really important. I recall a time early in my career. I was, you know, a a young professional eager, you know, to contribute, but young.
And I would hear things in meetings with executives that I couldn't refute because I was early in my twenties, and I didn't know how to say, hey. That's actually offensive to that audience of people. And I'm feeling the stark sense of responsibility in this current time, in this current climate, to make sure that I'm using my voice appropriately now that I have some personal history under my belt. Right? And so what advice might you give Pepper to people in terms of finding that courage to have a voice when they might feel uncomfortable?
Because let's face it. This is an uncomfortable topic right now in The United States most definitely, but I think globally, it's an uncomfortable topic for a lot of people too. So how how can people find courage to speak up? You are such a good strategist. I love the questions that you're asking.
Taking and going and unraveling them, that's so wonderful. I think through mentorship, finding someone that is aligned with us, it will help. Getting advice from them, having them show up with us and for us too, spreading the word. You know, just making sure that we find some allies, some mentors to help us push through and getting advice from them. But don't stop our efforts of controlling the narrative.
I don't think you need to be a bulldozer. I think some people have. I think I have been in the past, I I must admit myself, trying to ram, black insights down people's throats or just being maybe a little bit too argumentative and sensitive early on, early on. My work does not promote that. It is not finger pointing at all.
My last book, Let Me Explain Black Again, it's not meant to be pointing the finger at white business leaders or white executives. That's not what it's meant. It's meant to it's a follow-up to the two other books that I wrote, but we have to keep pushing through. So allyship, I think, is one of the best ways to keep this going when we are unsure or unafraid to. Mhmm.
That's beautiful. I'm wondering too, Pepper. You know, I'm sure you've seen this over the years, but a lot of times, the black insights work or even the multicultural insights work tends to be a nice to have inside of organizations. And not all organizations see it as a priority or something that should be on the table, at the forefront of how they're building their brand plans. How might we shift the narrative so that, you know, black voices are in the room at the start of brand building and not just attack on or an ancillary ad at the end of a project?
I think it's helping people understand where we are and what's happening. So history, language, identity, and being unapologetically black are I mean, there's so many insights, but those are really important. What's happening today is language, for the longest time has become the cultural identifier. If you speak a different language, then they recognize a different culture because the majority of black people speak English. Many brands and business leaders, as you know, Cynthia, they have a tendency to roll us in with mainstream.
So we need to be reminded that language is part of our culture, and we use language in a different way. Yes. I speak English, but are you talking to me? What you're saying to me, is it relevant? Does it resonate?
And I think we just need to keep pushing those comments, through. I think black people, when we think about history, we have to remember that, again, even though we speak English and we're reading an ad or responding to an ad, we are also bringing our black lens with us. Black people have a tendency to think about blackness 90% of the time versus white people who think about whiteness 10% of the time. So for US born black people in particular, the understanding this history is important in all the characteristics and beliefs and behaviors, the triumphs, the truths that come with that. I have many clients who don't understand that they forget or they again, this is an opportunity to talk about history, how we're bringing it with us.
We don't leave it outside the door. We don't leave it in another room if we're listening to a podcast, if we're on TikTok, if we're on Instagram, all of this comes with us. And understanding what that is and how that lens in terms of how we see ourselves and how we want people to see us and how we perceive how others see us is so critical to understanding how we message and connect with black people. It's the same the same insights. It's the history.
It's the language. It's the and today, it's about being unapologetically black, which I love. Cynthia, look at our hair. We could not do this a few years ago. We couldn't be on this podcast with this with this natural look.
And so being unapologetic is caring less about what society says to us and the standards that they have and being more authentic in the culture. At the end of the day, at the end of the day, it is so important to pay attention to black people because we continue to lead American culture and globally. We continue to do that. And that's one of the areas that I focus on is talking about starting with black, leading with black. According to Kanter Research, 62% of Americans believe they are influenced or America is influenced by black culture.
And we've got tons tons of examples from Kendrick Lamar to Jason Reynolds who writes books about these black characters, but they write them for all children. But they focus on these black characters, but he sold 6,000,000 books, because the understanding the life of black children, he wants to break stereotypes that many people have about black people and black children. So a lot of people are meeting our needs. It's the gaps that society and business leaders are not meeting that presents an opportunity to understand and to lead and to reach broader segments. I know I said a whole lot there.
Yeah. No. It's wonderful. You know, I could listen to you talk for a full hour. You bring up Kendrick Lamar, Pepper, and as you know, Kendrick Lamar is a a current titan in culture, and I went to his concert.
Did you go to his show with SZA by chance? I have not. Oh my god. I have not. I think he's gonna be in Chicago soon.
So just FYI if you're free on that night. Okay. I might fly up and come with you if you're willing because it was amazing. But I wanna talk about Kendrick a little bit. I think one of the things I really observed in being at the Kendrick show, was the fact that the audience that showed up was so diverse.
It was shocking to me to see the different types of people who were just so excited about what I think are very culturally relevant topics that perhaps are uncomfortable for them to talk about across their dinner table, but they were happy to sing these songs in the same room with Kendrick performing on stage. And I just got back from Paris spending a little bit of time in Paris. I'll tell you about it later. Yes. But, you know, I'm reminded of so many people that found refuge in Paris historically from the James Baldwin's of the world, the Josephine Bakers, and Yes.
Thinking about how can we as insights practitioners create environments where people feel comfortable having these uncomfortable conversations around blackness. You know, you and I can have these conversations comfortably because we're both living this experience. Right? And there's safety in that. But when we think about our responsibility to create and cultivate an environment for everybody to feel safe in the discussion, what do you dream that looks like?
Well, I think I'm glad you wanna focus on Kendrick Lamar because what he does, he is unapologetic, and he tells the truth. And he leaves space enough for people to come in. Another example is the Afropunk Festival in Brooklyn every year that comes from the lens of black people, but all are welcome. So you will see white people with blue Afros and purple Afros not making fun, but trying to be a part of, and that is welcome. What Kendrick Lamar does and what the folks at the Afropunk Festival do is they are unapologetic.
They're constantly telling our story. They're telling truth. They're speaking truth. That's a form of entertainment for both of them, but they make it known that all are welcome. And I think that is so important.
So community starts it has always started too with the invitation. It starts with a purpose and a a foundation, but it starts with the invitation. And if the door is open, then we can create these communities. So Kendrick Lamar's concerts are more than just a concert for entertainment. They are a community where he is sharing insights for people to take away and think about.
I mean, that Super Bowl performance, I was like, I'm not understanding what's happening, but I love the next day. I love the next day, the commentary from Time magazine to The Root to The Griot to I mean, it was it was mainstream media and black media. They all had it correct in terms of what he was trying to do. So I think being unapologetic today and keeping the door open is a way of keeping community and not not telling our truths is a way of keeping the door open. So it's happening, Cynthia.
And you you are doing the same thing too. I love your post. I love how when you went to, Berlin and you posted about your experiences, you opened the door for us to come in and share that. The sharing of lived experiences is about opening the door, inviting people in, and you do it all the time. The podcast is a form of doing that, believe it or not, because you're allowing me to tell my story.
So and that's what is happening with a lot of black influence. I mentioned Jason Reynolds writing the books, Rihanna with the makeup launching it, 40 shades of makeup that have never been done before at retail. Cultural shape shifters is what I call them. These are people who are changing the cultural norms. Whatever the norm was in the past that was mostly mainstream and white is now different.
It is more inclusive and diverse. And we could see opportunities, Rihanna, Kendrick Lamar, Jason Reynolds, Duane Wade. I think he started a winery that's not just for black people. So what happens is we still have this gap in terms of meeting our needs. Mainstream does not always meet our needs.
And so what we've done is using what we know culturally, bringing our cultural selves to the table. And we're creating things that meet our needs, but it also speaks to the humanity of other people. That's why understanding black people is so very, very important. Our history has caused us or enabled us to be resourceful. I call it the Rick effect, r I I c.
We have to be resourceful. We have to be industrious. We have to be innovative. We have to be creative. And so in doing so, we are creating things to meet our needs, but these needs also speak to other segments as well.
So when you get it right with black people, you get it right with mainstream. And I just wish people could see more of that. Today, the word black in DEI has been weaponized. So it's a lot more difficult for people to hear, and they're afraid of being weaponized themselves and being ostracized and weaponized themselves. So the way to remove the fear, I think, is to do what you're doing and to do what I'm doing.
We have to keep talking. We have to keep telling our truths. We we have to keep sharing. We have to keep the door open. We need to be authentic.
I do not need to try to be white. I am black. I've been black all my life. I am unapologetic, and I'm but you can learn from me, and I can learn from you as well. Well.
Mhmm. You meaning other ethnic groups. No. I totally get that. And I am trying to walk in your footsteps, quite frankly.
And sometimes my knees are shaking when I'm doing it because I just have a profound respect for you and how hard it must have been in the beginning to have these conversations out loud. So, just know that I speak for myself and probably several others that were so grateful for the path that you've created for us. And I might be shaking in my boots from time to time, but, certainly, I I'm committed to Oh, girl. Carrying the torch. I am grateful.
So last night, I met with some young black well, everybody's younger than me, insights people. We met at, at a little bar. One of the things that we are doing in the industry is trying to stay together even though many of them work in mainstream areas with mainstream audiences, which is wonderful. Back in the day, when I started, we were researchers and that was it. Clients did not want our opinions.
I remember getting a letter from a client that made us redo our report because they didn't want our recommendations. They didn't want our points of view. What I love about the black researchers today, you guys have been exposed to strategy. You have been invited to work on strategy. That causes the thinking to go deeper and broader.
We didn't have that. And I love that today's Black Insights people have that. My challenge to your request is don't lose your culture. Don't give up your culture under pressure. Don't stop telling the truth.
Don't stop inviting people in. Don't stop being authentic. Don't be afraid to go against the cultural norms. And I think I'm seeing that a lot with our black insights people. So when you go to Berlin, when you go on your trips, when you speak at a conference, when you post about it, when you go to dinner with people, when you hang out with people, when you present yourself, Cynthia, as a strategist, someone that can help brands with all segments of the marketplace, and you just happen to be black, not just happen to be black.
You are black, which is wonderful, and you bring that to the table as well. That is so freaking important today is to see the evolution of and that was one of your questions, the evolution of black insights, particularly from black researchers and strategy people like yourself. We were not invited to be strategy people. We were we were or we were told to be order takers and to give us the research and go away. And I think it was the, researchers in The UK who introduced the idea of planning to The United States.
And as planners, we all got elevated. But as black researchers, we started bringing in more insights and black insights that worked for mainstream. And now they're the the unfortunate part is how they're shutting us out when they can learn so much from us. Again, that speaks to the humanity of people. So I enjoy working with companies that are human focused, that care about people and not just pick an ad or pick a product or no.
We don't need your insights. Just, you know, just be order takers. And I am moving into that. I've had to pivot because of the DEI situation. I continue to say I'm a black consumer researcher, but also a cultural insights expert.
So using insights from black, Hispanic, Asian to understand the marketplace a lot better, and which has provided some opportunities for me as well. Mhmm. Yeah. I I have to say, Pepper, you inspired me years ago. I remember hearing you talk at the GO at P and G.
And, just the fact that you could say things so objectively and on stage in front of an audience that didn't look like you and I in many regards. Now I I feel fortunate to have worked for a company like P and G that actually does care about black consumers, in my opinion. You know, from what I saw in the short time that I spent there, I really do believe they have a commitment to doing what's right for black consumers. You know, no company gets it perfect all the time, but I saw a lot of positive things. And I think by seeing you on stage, it inspired me to realize I had to figure out where I could best serve, not just black consumers, but as a black practitioner That's right.
Where I could best serve and be utilized. And I have found that in many regards that being on the outside, being objective. I actually just ran into an executive on my flight home from Paris, a former executive of a company I worked for. And I shared with him, hey. I started this agency a couple of years ago because I had this hypothesis that I could be a better service external to the brands, and that has proven to be the case for me.
But, you know, for those that are on the inside, I am curious, you know, how might they use external partners like a Peppermiller, like a Cynthia Harris to help them objectively influence? And what advice might you give them on how to create good relationships so that they can find confidence on the inside as well? Oh, I love that question. Well, you have to, first of all, want to want to have a human focused strategy. You have to want to want to get black culture and Asian culture and Latino culture, a Native American culture.
You have got to want to want that. And so when you find the people that because there are people that are not interested and you can't force them. Wonderful book I've been reading, let them let people do what they'd rather do and not force them. And we'll we'll talk about that later. So I think that's one thing is identifying that low hanging fruit that people who are even if they're mildly interested.
And then, again, telling our story. You know, that is such a good question, and maybe I am baffled because this is the work that I've been doing for years, trying to help people articles for trade publications always helps. Doing podcasts always helps because we have to get the word out. One of the things that I find myself doing with these podcasts is I'm saying the same thing all the time. I'm looking to have new presentations, still using the insights and strategies that we've used.
They're still very important and people are not grasping them, so you have to talk about them. But how do you talk about them in a different way that meets their needs? Researching these companies, understanding where they're coming from, identifying that low hanging fruit for us is one of the things that I've been doing, looking at new opportunities to tell my story. One of the things that I've been doing, Cynthia, is working with production companies. Production companies that are shooting black commercials, commercials that are supposed to attract a black audience or the majority of actors are black because that sends a signal to all of us.
And what I do is I use my insights as a cultural insights expert to help them make better decisions. What's happened is people bring me to the table when they're shooting, and I should be brought to the table. You and I should be brought to the table earlier. What is the commercial? What are the objectives?
What is it trying to say? Who's the audience? What kind of outcome do you want? We need to look at that and see before they start shooting if there's any red flags or pink flags that need to be addressed. And then we go into the studio and you share insights with them.
So we have to find opportunities where there are holes like in the production industry. Or for me, I found comfort and opportunities with human focused companies like Community. Not necessarily small community organizations, but I'm working currently working with the American Cancer Society. Big organization, but they have a focus on black women that they want to understand more about. Or Parsiq Education.
I had the opportunity to present at their wonderful conference. It was an education conference, and I had to use black insights. I took my black insights and helped them understand how they can lead with these insights to have a better outcome in the classroom. So there's work that we have to do in terms of identifying opportunities for ourselves that you and I could do, and then there's work that they have to do, brands have to do as well, wanting to want to understand different cultures and maintaining the idea of inclusivity, how important that is, and diversity, they have to do that, and then we have to do our part as well. And it's something that we are constantly I don't like the idea of reinventing myself or telling other people that have a lot of experience in the work that they've done, but I do talk about repositioning or better positioning ourselves.
So I think that's something that we have to do as well. And I think maybe a lot of these brands are going through that too while many companies have adapted the DEI dismantling, but so many of them have not. And they're keeping it I guess they're keeping it quiet or under wraps. So I don't know how we make the connection with them except exposing ourselves to written articles or Mhmm. Podcasts that we're doing or doing presentations.
I think those are some of the things that we do. But I think what you are doing is wonderful, and I'm delighted that you're doing that. People like, Pepper, you should do a podcast. I'm like, no. It's too much work.
It's a lot of work, isn't it, Cynthia? It is a lot of work, a lot more than I expected, but we are so fortunate that we have the help of a brilliant production team who's been helping quite a bit. So but we are definitely not doing this alone. I assure you of that. You know, you're reminding me, Pepper, of some of the marketers I've enjoyed supporting over the years.
And as I think about what has really made it work with supporting these marketers, I think it is that they have invited me into their worlds personally, and it makes it more comfortable for me to invite them into mine as a black practitioner, as a black, you know, consumer expert, somebody who does a lot of work in the space as well. And so I do think that as we think about the future, it's gonna be so important that we go to one another's concert. So we talked about Kendrick earlier, but I, you know, I have to admit, I one time supported a marketer who loves Sara Bareilles. And she was just so excited Sara Bareilles was coming to town, and, she invited me to go. I didn't know who this girl was before I went to this concert.
I don't know who she is. She's a she's a popular artist. She does a lot of, acoustics, pop music, essentially. And, you know, transparently, it's not a concert I would have chosen to go to on my own. But going there made me understand her world in a very different way, and it made me more comfortable inviting her into my world.
That's a good point. And I think that is why our working relationship was so strong and so solid because there was a bit of vulnerability on both of our parts to, get to know one another and get to know each other's worlds. And so my hope for the future is that more of that happens. I absolutely agree. And I think with black practitioners, there's a concern about being pigeonholed into just the black space.
And I hate using the word pigeonholed in black space, because it sounds negative. But it can be some drawbacks like, you know, what's happening with the dismantling of DEI and how we're receiving less investment in black research, black marketing, black media, and how that could impact your business. But to your point, understanding the different segments is is important. If we're talking about cultural influence, it's important to know who leads and, you know, how that's leading, but it's also how we are different. We are taught to not talk about differences, to not focus on differences.
It makes people uncomfortable to your point. People think it's rude or that it's divisive, but different does not mean deficient. It provides an opportunity. It's it can be very, very innovative. And so one of the things that I've been doing too, to your point, we have to show up in these other spaces.
I've been following Asian advertising and marketing. I've been following them a bit through the Asian American Advertising Association, because I wanna learn more about the culture. I am taking Spanish on Duolingo. I'm on day 1,059, and I still can't string a sentence together. But I want I'm choosing to understand the culture.
And then I'm I'm looking at what are our differences? How are we alike? What are some of the trends? And using AI to help me at least identify that. AI doesn't get it right all the time, but it is a start.
It it can give you a starting point, and how are we the same, and how are we different, and what's trending with us, and what's trending with them. I continue to do these updates all the time. So I think in positioning yourself as a cultural insights expert like I do or positioning yourself bigger than this black researcher is absolutely critical and more important in terms of how the industry sees us, that we can do more. And we can do more because we have to live in both worlds. We have to live in many worlds, the black world and the white world.
Some of the other well, the white culture, mainstream culture can be in a fishbowl sometimes and miss things. And so that's the opportunity that we have through our lived experiences that we can bring to the table as well. I'm so inspired by you and I hope to be like you when I'm as wise as you are. I know. Be I I love what you're doing.
I really. Truly, Cynthia. Really. Truly. Because you guys and I just I'm like, oh my god.
I wished we had, I had to build in my strategic experience for myself in terms of leading a strategy team or learning from a strategy team. I and I'm grateful to to Walton Isaacson who I had a contract with them on their strategy team. And I I was like, oh my god. I was so out of my element at the time, but learned so so very much. But we do have to kind of, you know, jump in there.
But what you are doing and what black practitioners are doing today is that they are so much more than researchers. They are strategists, smart, brilliant strategists that can bring in the black experience as well as other cultures and help you see what's the same and what's different and how, again, different is not deficient. And that's what you're doing. Thank you. And keep doing that, Cynthia.
I am not necessarily doing that kind of work that you're doing, and you're doing it globally. And that's, that's the other important factor too is what did you learn globally that could help us with our work today? And what do we need to know globally about black people in America? Global influence, what's different, what's the same? I know that darker skinned people tend to be perceived as having less value.
It's a global issue. It's definitely a global issue. But what does that mean to global marketers and marketers today in The United States with the brands that we have? How do we bridge those connections? How do we make those connections stronger?
When I think we need as black practitioners to talk more about our global influence as well. It it was just so much that we that we have to do, and that's what you're doing, Cynthia. I'm trying. You're the global practitioner, and keep doing that. I appreciate that.
I am learning from you. I appreciate you saying that, and I have always had a very deep curiosity about the world. And, you know, that has been since I was five years old. I had a globe that I was fascinated with as a kid, and I feel so fortunate that my life has turned out that I have I've lived abroad a couple of times, and I have had to learn how to Oh, that's It's a beautiful thing. It is.
And I will have to talk about this offline to your point, but I do wanna share some thoughts and hypotheses I have on how we can support the diaspora, quite frankly, because I do think that Absolutely. You're right. There's some truths that are reverberating across the world, not just here in The United States. And, I think there's opportunity for us to come together and create a new future that we all wanna see. So Yes.
I have a couple of final questions to ask you, Pepper. Yes. And this is how we wrap up every episode. These are just rapid fire questions for you to answer whatever comes to mind first. Okay?
So the first question is, what's one thing you wish every insights practitioner knew about black consumers? That we are valuable as a people as well as a market segment. And I wish I had time to give you ex you know, some examples of that, but I wish that they knew that and would act on that. I might have to invite you back for part two for that. When you think about building a project, do you wish that you had more time or more budget?
Oh, more budget. Fill in the blank. The future of market research is? It's a global phenomenon that should be diverse and inclusive for it to be profitable to brands as well as people. What was your dream job when you were a kid, Pepper?
Well, when I was younger, I thought about being a nurse. I talked about being a nurse. I remember for Christmas, I wanted a nurse's kit and I practice on my dolls and then having issues with seeing blood, so that didn't work. And then as I got older, I was on the path to be an accountant. I was great in math.
I had honors math in high school and, you know, I was gonna be an accountant. Luckily, I ended up working at an ad agency, which I had no knowledge of and learned about market research from the ad agency and loved it because I, like you, was the I was always the why girl. Just curious why why why why why. I was that kid that always wanted to understand. You know, understanding is so important.
God. God. That's so important. And it's critical to be understood and to understand Love that. Is very, very important.
So I connected with that immediately. I love that. I love that. Okay. What's a fun fact about you that very few people know?
Yeah. That we talked about this morning that my name is Persephone, my birth name from Greek mythology. My mom's best friend and college roommate was named Persephone Anne. And when I was born, I got all of it. I got all of it.
So I've always been Pepper. My family, my friends call me Pepper. In school, I was Persephone, of course. But Persephone was not user friendly. I tried to use it.
I had it on my business cards, and people would not call me back when I was doing my, my sales calls and sales pitches. They wouldn't call me back because that was just too hard to say. But Pepper, oh, that's a cute name. I love it. I had no clue, but I'm glad I know this fact about you now.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I like Persephone. It's a beautiful name.
She is the reason for the seasons of the year. So it's a beautiful story that comes along. It is beautiful. I love that. And then finally, do you prefer coffee or tea?
Tea. Herbal tea. Not a coffee drinker. Can do the caffeine. And I'm do you are you a coffee drinker?
Every day, all day. Oh my god. I'm thinking because of your natural energy, that would just take you over the top. I know. Because I'm I'm a high energy person too, but I can't do the caffeine.
Herbal tea. But caffeine actually doesn't do anything to me, and I don't know what it is. But I just like the taste. It doesn't give me jitters or anything, so I'm I'm fortunate. I do like tea, however.
I love the stories behind tea. I love learning kind of where they come from and how people mix their herbs and all that good stuff. So Of course you would. Well, Pepper, thank you so much for taking the time. I feel so honored.
Thank you, Cynthia, for having me. I really appreciate it, and I hope that the audience really enjoys this episode as much as I did.
Episode created and produced by Cynthia Harris and Emily Byrski of 8:28 Insights.
Score provided by Swoope and Natalie Lauren Sims, friends of the 8:28 Insights Collective.